Your Brain On Climate

You're a mature, rational adult who can face massive, existential problems head-on, right? Or is your brain more like a medieval dungeon: a deep dark place in which you chuck things you don't want to think about, and throw away the key? Uh-oh. 
My guest on this episode, the esteemed psychologist, TED talker and author Dr Renée Lertzman, thinks it's the latter - and she thinks it's about time you got them complex thoughts out.  
Renée tells me why most traditional climate chat is more likely to cause us to shut down than authentically connect with how we feel about climate change (and all the rest of it). She draws from the worlds of therapy and trauma management to urge us all to be guides, not lecturers - and to help others to dig into what lies beneath. 
Let me know your thoughts on the show - hello@yourbrainonclimate.com. Please rate, review and subscribe, and share the show on socials. And do consider chucking this humble indie podcaster a few quid at www.patreon.com/yourbrainonclimate. 
Owl noises = references below.
18:14 - Psychosocial research = how our inner worlds relate to our social lives. 
22:23 - Marshall Alcorn's Resistance to Learning.  
24:49 - A Substack from Renée, including on how naming complex truths makes our immune system work better. 
32:50 - Lisa Feldman Barrett's amazing work on how emotions work. 
37:30 - A fascinating long read/listen on accompaniment.  
44:56 - Another of Renée's Substacks, this time on the three As. 
Your Brain on Climate is a show about human brains vs the climate crisis. It's  hosted and produced by me, Dave Powell. You can follow the show on instagram @yourbrainonclimate, and I occasionally put up a Substack. 
YBOC theme music and iterations thereof, by me. Thanks as always to Ruth Everett for the voices. Show logo by Arthur Stovell at https://mondial-studio.com/.

Why do people who care about climate change still jet off on planes (including, occasionally, me?) This is an excerpt of me attempting to answer that surprisingly complicated question on Joel Walker's Look Near First podcast - where Joel asked me all about the psychology and culture of flying. 
How come despite knowing about climate change, and the damage aviation causes, those who fly keep on doing so - even if they're ostensibly really concerned about the planet? And if facts don't do it, what might persuade said people to holiday closer to home? I have a go at marshalling everything this show has taught me about human brains and how they work.  
It was a pleasure to be invited on Look Near First. Here's a link to the full episode of my chat with Joel, and I commend his show to you in the highest terms.  Joel appeared on Your Brain on Climate a few episodes back telling me his story - the pilot who quit because of his climate anxiety. 
Please do consider chipping in a couple of quid over at http://www.patreon.com/yourbrainonclimate. And a written review would be ace. Please thank you please. 
The show is hosted and produced by me, Dave Powell. The show is over on Instagram at @yourbrainonclimate. 
YBOC theme music and iterations thereof, by me.  Show logo by Arthur Stovell at www.designbymondial.com.

In this episode I go for a walk in the woods with a former airline pilot who packed it in because of his climate anxiety. Joel Walker flew for years but could never quite ignore the state of the planet - like the forest fires and melting glaciers he could see from his cockpit. Eventually, in 2025, the cognitive dissonance got too much and Joel left flying forever.  
As we natter through the trees not far from Luton Airport, Joel tells me what it feels like to walk away from a prestigious career he'd trained for for years, because he could no longer bear what it was doing to the world. He tells me about the culture of being a pilot, the ruthless logic of aviation expansion, and what he's learned about how to live a more fulfilling life from his rollercoaster journey. 
Joel is funny, kind and quietly inspiring. This is a fascinating chat with a man who has grappled hard with things we all face at some point. How to take big decisions when your values are telling you to do one thing, but your identity (and salary!) is built around doing something else. And what happens when you can no longer look away from how entangled you are with the climate crisis - whether you're an airline pilot or not. 
Let me know your thoughts on the show - hello@yourbrainonclimate.com. Please rate, review and subscribe, and share the show on socials. And do consider chucking this humble indie podcaster a few quid at www.patreon.com/yourbrainonclimate. 
Owl noises = references below. One additional last-minute reference: for more on 'sustainable' aviation and if it's possible, check out the latest Outrage and Optimism.  
21:34 - the Jeavons Paradox explained. 
24:23 - the Safe Landing group. 
34:31 - the overview effect: what seeing Earth from space does to you. 
37:36 - more about how contrails increase the warming effect.  
38:56 - slightly old stat, but 70% of flights taken by 15% of people is here. 
41:33 - extreme day trips. 
52:23 - my chat with Geoff Beattie about climate anxiety. 
57:00 -  Look Near First, Joel's new thing. 
58:08 - Joel profiled in the Times. 
The show is hosted and produced by me, Dave Powell. You can follow the show on instagram @yourbrainonclimate, and I occasionally put up a Substack. 
YBOC theme music and iterations thereof, by me. Thanks as always to Ruth Everett for the voices. Show logo by Arthur Stovell at https://mondial-studio.com/.

For most of the last two decades, the right of UK politics were all for climate action. Heck, in 2019 a Conservative Prime Minister signed us up to net zero emissions by 2050!  But a few short years later both of the two major parties on the right are now very much against 'net "stupid" zero', and everything they think that means.  What's going on? What are they trying to do? And - will it work? 
I'm joined by Becca Massey-Chase, Head of Citizen Engagement at the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR).  Becca tells me the different attack lines that the right are using against net zero - whether they are persuasive to the average person, and what deeper stories they're tapping into. 
We discuss why the right has done such a reverse ferret on climate change, after decades of broad consensus - and how much of it is cynical politics vs sincerely held worldviews.  And I ask: if some people's views about climate action can really shift that quickly - what does that reveal about how firmly any of us really believe what we think we believe about it? 
You can find Becca's brilliant report here.  
Let me know your thoughts on the show - hello@yourbrainonclimate.com. Please rate, review and subscribe, and share the show on socials. And do consider chucking this humble indie podcaster a few quid at www.patreon.com/yourbrainonclimate. 
Owl noises = references below.
21:34: Political identity guides climate belief. 
22:14: Motivated reasoning. 
30:00. Becca's research (again). 
40.04: Janan Ganesh's vibes theory of politics (paywalled alas)
43.06: A brilliant piece from Climate Barometer about climate salience. 
Your Brain on Climate is a show about human brains vs the climate crisis. It's  hosted and produced by me, Dave Powell. You can follow the show on instagram @yourbrainonclimate, and I occasionally put up a Substack. 
YBOC theme music and iterations thereof, by me. Thanks as always to Ruth Everett for the voices. Show logo by Arthur Stovell at https://mondial-studio.com/.

If you've ever caught yourself writing off a  group of people with a simple and dismissive description of why they do what they do - or been thusly written off yourself - then you'll be familiar with 'thin description'. It's a bad way to learn what makes someone tick and probably annoys them as well. So instead, here's the idea of 'thick description': properly spending time with people to understand their complex inner lives and what they really think about things, including climate change. 
In this Micro episode, I revisit my chat from 2025 with anthropologist Karl Dudman. Karl's  inspiring work with the Trump-voting yet climate-threatened communities of Down East is description that is beautifully, nourishingly, and enlightenlingly thick. 
I also mention my appearance on the Look Near First podcast, talking about the psychology of flying and aviation. Check that out here. 
Please do consider chipping in a couple of quid over at http://www.patreon.com/yourbrainonclimate. And a written review would be ace. Please thank you please. 
The show is hosted and produced by me, Dave Powell. The show is over on Instagram at @yourbrainonclimate. 
YBOC theme music and iterations thereof, by me.  Show logo by Arthur Stovell at www.designbymondial.com.