Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

Happy New Year and welcome to Season 14 of Cleaning Up. From the future of nuclear to growing tensions between China and the USA, we're off with a bang with a conversation between hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington. They reflect on the key trends of 2024, and looking ahead to what might be on the cards in 2025, from China's rapid electrification to political upheaval in the US. Bryony and Michael get stuck into the challenges and opportunities around the build out of nuclear power, the potential of biofuels in aviation, and what we might expect from COP30 in Brazil later this year. Leadership CircleCleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. Links and moreHow To Win The Climate Argument | Ep172: John MarshallCanada's Controversial Queen of Green - Ep131: Tzeporah Berman Is Trump's Victory A Win For China? Ep185: Professor Qi YeCan Nuclear Repower China's Coal Fleet? - Ep163: Staffan Qvist & Dr. Yaoli Zhang The Inconvenient Truth about Climate Science - Ep93: Prof. Roger Pielke Jr. Paper on Curtailment of Nuclear Power Output during Heatwaves 

Happy New Year from all of us here at Cleaning Up. This week we’re bringing you one from our archive of almost 200 episodes. It’s a conversation Bryony Worthington had with Naomi Oreskes in October 2023,  her very first episode as a co-host for Cleaning Up.  Naomi Oreskes is the Henry Charles Lea Professor of the History of Science and Affiliated Professor of Earth and Planetary Sciences at Harvard University. A world-renowned earth scientist, historian and public speaker, she is the author of the best-selling book, Merchants of Doubt, and a leading voice on the role of science in society and the role of disinformation in blocking climate action, a topic that feels more relevant than ever. Please enjoy, and we’ll be back with Season 14 of Cleaning Up on January 8th.

Hello, I’m Michael Liebreich, and this is Cleaning Up.I hope you are having a good break over the holiday season, and getting to spend some quality time with your family. I’m in Switzerland, where it has just snowed about a meter in 24 hours.In case you’re missing your regular dose of climate content, we’re starting something new, which we’re calling Cleaning Up Redux. During the break between seasons, we’ll be republishing some gems from our back catalogue, which now covers nearly 200 episodes.To kick us off, today we’ll be listening back to episode 68, from Season 4, released in December 2021. It’s a conversation with Amory Lovins, whom I dubbed the Einstein of Energy Efficiency. Amory is the co-founder and former chairman and chief scientist of the Rocky Mountain Institute. He is also the author of more than 30 books and 700 papers, and now an Adjunct Lecturer in Atmosphere and Energy at Stanford University.I first became familiar with Amory’s work even before I founded New Energy Finance journey, as a fierce promoter of the cause of energy efficiency by design, and equally fierce opponent of the idea of any role for nuclear power. Amory and I do not see eye to eye on everything, but we have become good friends and occasional sparring partners.Amory joined me on Cleaning from his passive house high up in the Rocky Mountains, which is so warm despite not having any active heating that, at the time of recording, he had produced 78 crops of indoor bananas – a fact of which he is rightly proud.The reason I chose this episode to kick off Cleaning Up Redux is that, in these very turbulent and politicised times, it has a refreshing back-to-basics feel. If you can save energy you save money, and that is always a good thing. If we all focused more on making clean energy cheaper for consumers and businesses, and a bit less on persuading politicians to do things that drive up energy costs, the transition might be moving a lot faster.I hope you enjoy my December 2021 conversation with Amory Lovins.Further reading: IEA Energy Efficiency 2021 report: https://www.iea.org/reports/energy-efficiency-2021 Official bio: https://rmi.org/people/amory-lovins/ How Big Is the Energy Efficiency Resource?  (a half-hour summary talk is at https://energy.stanford.edu/events/special-energy-seminar-amory-lovins-holmes-hummel) https://doi.org/10.1088/1748-9326/aad965 Recalibrating Climate Prospects https://doi.org/10.1088/1748-9326/ab55ab Can a Virus and Viral Ideas Speed the World’s Journey Beyond Fossil Fuels? (with Kingsmill Bond) https://doi.org/10.1088/1748-9326/abc3f2 SAE: Reframing Automotive Fuel Efficiency https://doi.org/10.4271/13-01-01-0004

Are we losing the argument that climate change requires action and investment? Can we balance the need for affordable energy with the costs of decarbonizing hard-to-abate sectors like steel, cement and aviation? And how can we counter the spread of misinformation and populist narratives that undermine support for clean energy? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich welcomes back Lord Adair Turner for a deep dive into the state of the energy transition at the end of 2024. They discuss the remarkable progress in technologies like solar, batteries and electrification, but also the political and economic challenges of driving rapid decarbonisation. Turner shares his optimism that we have the technologies to reach net zero by 2070-2080, but also his concern that the pace of change may not be fast enough to avoid significant warming. They explore issues like the role of nuclear power, the need for grid investment, and the complexities of climate finance and international cooperation. This episode grapples with the tension between technological progress and political realities - and how to navigate that divide to accelerate the transition to a sustainable, zero-carbon future as we move into the new year. Leadership Circle Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. Links and moreAdair's book, Just CapitalThe Energy Transitions Commission: https://www.energy-transitions.orgHow China Became a Green Finance Superpower - Ep160: Dr. Ma Jun The Einstein of Energy Efficiency - Ep68: Amory LovinsThe Solar Revolution - Past, Present and Future - Ep173: Jenny Chase⁠Can Exponential Growth Save a Finite Planet? - Ep187: Azeem Azhar The UK Energy Company Creating the Utility of the Future - Ep175: Greg Jackson The Bridgetown Initiator - Ep145: Prof Avinash PersaudHow To Win The Climate Argument | Ep172: John Marshall Is It Ever OK to Promote Fossil Fuels?  TNO's Hydrogen Insights