Chain of Learning: Leadership Strategies for Transforming Culture, Developing People, and Getting Results

Register for a chance to win a copy of Karina Mangu-Ward's book "Teams that Meet the Moment" 
Learn more and apply for the November 2026 cohort of my Japan Leadership Experience: https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/

Have you poured months into a strategy your team couldn't bring to life? Or watched capable people work harder than ever, and still struggle to pull together as a team?

High performance isn't about a better strategy, more talent, or longer hours. It's about how your team works together, every single day.
Karina Mangu-Ward, author of Teams That Meet the Moment, has spent more than a decade helping complex organizations redesign the messy day-to-day of how people actually get things done together. Her belief: good everyday teaming habits are both good for people and good for results. You don't have to choose between them.
Making this real doesn't require a reinvention. You just need the right structure and the intention to show up differently. In this episode, Karina shares simple, tangible practices you can use in your very next meeting or strategic project.

You’ll Learn:
The three lies leaders tell themselves about teamwork, and why believing them holds your team back
How the framework of the "Even Over" ends the swirl when your team is stuck choosing between two competing options
Why creating a "Safe to Try" process gets a team unstuck when you're chasing consensus and certainty
What a steady team cadence unlocks when everything around you feels like an emergency
The instinct nearly every high performer has to unlearn before they can build a team that thrives
ABOUT MY GUEST:

Karina Mangu-Ward is a partner at August Public, an organizational change consultancy that helps large, complex organizations build more human-centered ways of working, whose clients include PepsiCo, Planned Parenthood, and Sundance. She's the author of Teams That Meet the Moment: 9 Practices for Unlocking Performance and Growth in Uncertain Times. Karina's passion is helping groups navigate complexity, gain insight, and unlock highly complex challenges.
IMPORTANT LINKS:
Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/78 
Connect with Karina: linkedin.com/in/karina-mangu-ward 
Purchase a copy of Karina's book: Teams That Meet the Moment
Learn more about Karina’s company: aug.co 
Take the Team assessment: assessment.aug.co 
Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson 
Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter 
Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com 
Join us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/japantrip 
TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:
03:01 Why great strategy still fails
04:13 The hustle culture myth that's burning teams out
05:20 Everyday habits drive extraordinary teams
07:11 Meeting the moment in uncertain times
09:13 The "Safe to Try" mindset that breaks gridlock
11:18 Setting guardrails without limiting innovation
12:06 Why small bets outperform big risks
13:29 Unlearning the need to have the answer
15:17 Why sticky practices beat complicated frameworks
17:16 Simple retrospectives that strengthen learning
20:19 The surprising cost of treating everything like an emergency
22:09 Using "Even Over" to make better trade-offs
25:28 Intention over reaction in decision-making
30:32 When perfection becomes procrastination
31:53 Why working in public accelerates learning
34:22 The power of stories over instruction
37:08 Intention + practice = better leadership
39:14 What trade-off do you need to make?

Register for a chance to win a copy of Karina Mangu-Ward's book "Teams that Meet the Moment" : https://kbjanderson.com/giveaways/teams-that-meet-the-moment/
Learn more and apply for the November 2026 cohort of my Japan Leadership Experience: https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/

Register for a chance to win a copy of Karina Mangu-Ward's book "Teams that Meet the Moment" 
Learn more and apply for the November 2026 cohort of my Japan Leadership Experience: https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/

Joy isn't a perk. It's a business strategy.
Have you ever wondered whether work has to feel this hard? Whether the team you've built can actually function without you? Whether there's a way to lead that doesn't burn you — or your people — out?

Rich Sheridan built Menlo Innovations around one bold idea: ending human suffering in the workplace. The result is a company where joy isn't a slogan. It's how things actually get done. It's a place built on collaboration, human energy, and pride in what people create together.

Joy isn't constant happiness. It's the long arc of meaning and contribution alongside people who care. And it becomes possible the moment you stop being the center of every problem and start creating the conditions for ownership, continuous learning, and yes, joy.
You don't have to change the world. You just have to change your world.
You’ll Learn:
The mistake most leaders make about mistakes, and why more mistakes can get you ahead faster
Why what looks like a questionable decision from below makes sense from above
The difference between joy and happiness, and why most leaders are chasing the wrong thing
Why running a small experiment will move you further than creating the perfect plan
What it really takes to build a company designed to last a hundred years
ABOUT MY GUEST:
Rich Sheridan is the co-founder, CEO, and Chief Storyteller of Menlo Innovations, a software development and consulting firm known for its people-centered culture and focus on joy in the workplace. He is the author of Joy, Inc. and Chief Joy Officer and was inducted into the Shingo Academy in 2022 for his contributions to organizational excellence.
IMPORTANT LINKS:
Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/77
Connect with Rich Sheridan: linkedin.com/in/menloprez
Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson
Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter
Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com
Join us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/japantrip
Purchase a copy of Rich's books: Joy, Inc. and Chief Joy Officer
Learn more about Menlo Innovations: menloinnovations.com
Tugboat Institute: tugboatinstitute.com
TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:
02:37 When work no longer feels sustainable
05:26 The moment Rich realized the problem wasn't technology
07:27 What an 8-year-old noticed about leadership
08:23 Why hero-based organizations scale through exhaustion
09:39 When caring becomes carrying
12:21 The codependency leaders develop with crises
14:09 What joy at work actually means
17:13 Working with pride and delighting customers
19:17 Why human energy is a leadership responsibility
21:00 What's the cost of not having joy?
23:28 From constant firefighting to two emergencies in 25 years
25:24 Joy vs. happiness: What's the difference?
27:02 Why joy isn't happiness every day
32:17 The phrase that keeps Menlo moving forward
34:15 The leadership lesson Rich learned from flying
40:39 Why Menlo isn't chasing exponential growth
43:02 The book that changed Rich's career
45:18 Why crisis practices work when there isn't a crisis
47:28 Why your system keeps producing the same results
49:38 The shift from carrying to creating conditions for change leadership
51:46 Why stepping in can hold people back

Register for a chance to win a copy of Karina Mangu-Ward's book "Teams that Meet the Moment" : https://kbjanderson.com/giveaways/teams-that-meet-the-moment/
Learn more and apply for the November 2026 cohort of my Japan Leadership Experience: https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/

Register for a chance to win a copy of Karina Mangu-Ward's book "Teams that Meet the Moment" 
Learn more and apply for the November 2026 cohort of my Japan Leadership Experience: https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/

What does it really take to sustain a culture of continuous improvement –  through pressure for results, across generations, and into an era of AI?

In this final episode of my three-part series with John Shook, one of the most influential leaders and thinkers in the global lean community, we turned to the questions on your mind. 

Before we sat down to record, I asked listeners to submit your questions. We cover four of them specifically here, though many others were addressed in Parts 1 and 2, and together they highlight the tensions change leaders and executives face every day.

At the end, as we promised in Part 2, John shares his parting reflections and advice for all of us leading transformation to create people-centered learning cultures. It’s not just what we should stop doing, it’s what we need to continue. Starting with ourselves.

If you haven't listened to episodes 74 and 75 yet, start there first as you won’t want to miss hearing this conversation in full.
You'll Learn:
Why leaders should be patient for results but impatient for action
Why getting to the assumptions that underlie your principles and values is where the real work of culture change begins
How aligning around the real problem to solve helps close the gap across generations and perspectives
What the original intention of jidoka — separating machine work from human work — can teach us about navigating AI and keeping technology in service of people
The real purpose of kaizen and continuous improvement
ABOUT MY GUEST:
John Shook spent eleven years with Toyota in Japan and the U.S., where he helped transfer the Toyota Production System globally. He later served as President of the Lean Enterprise Institute and Chairman of the Lean Global Network.

John is the co-author of the award-winning books Learning to See and Managing to Learn, and wrote the foreword to my book Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn. As an industrial anthropologist, he brings a perspective that connects culture, systems, and practice to bridge deep thinking with real-world application.

IMPORTANT LINKS:
Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/76
Connect with John Shook: lean.org/about-lei/senior-advisors-staff/john-shook/ 
Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson 
Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter
Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com
Join us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/japantrip 
Purchase a copy of, “Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn,”: https://kbjanderson.com/learning-to-lead/ 
TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:
02:28 [Listener Question] How do you balance patience with action?
04:06 Avoiding solution jumping and analysis paralysis
05:20 [Listener Question] What will matter most for the next generation of organizations?
07:21 Why underlying assumptions matter more than artifacts
08:28 The deeper level of hansei and reflection
08:53 [Listener Question] How do you bridge generations without slowing improvement?
10:43 Quick PDCA vs. long-cycle learning
11:23 Aligning people around shared purpose
13:56 [Listener Question] In our age of AI, how do we stay true to jidoka's original intent, separating machine work from human work?
14:12 AI, jidoka, and protecting human work
15:23 Four questions to navigate uncertainty
16:17 Why respect for people still matters in AI
17:15 Jidoka beyond “automation with a human touch”
18:54 Curiosity, experiments, and learning with AI
19:30 The promise and risk of AI thinking for us
22:08 PDCA beyond engineering and problem solving
25:39 The purpose of kaizen is to do more kaizen
26:18 Creating conditions for people to think and grow
27:00 Shifting from leading change to creating conditions

Register for a chance to win a copy of Karina Mangu-Ward's book "Teams that Meet the Moment" : https://kbjanderson.com/giveaways/teams-that-meet-the-moment/
Learn more and apply for the November 2026 cohort of my Japan Leadership Experience: https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/

Register for a chance to win a copy of Karina Mangu-Ward's book "Teams that Meet the Moment" 
Learn more and apply for the November 2026 cohort of my Japan Leadership Experience: https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/

Lean has always been about people. We just kept reaching for the tools, without understanding the human purpose behind them.

In part two of my three-part conversation with John Shook, we go behind the scenes of Toyota's culture and leadership — sharing stories of the system-building leaders who actually made it what it is, and exploring what it really means to lead people-centered change.
John shares behind-the-scenes reflections from his time inside Toyota that you might not have heard before. Drawing on his direct experience in the company and our shared experiences living and working in Japan and globally, we explore a critical feature that is often missed: lean has always been a socio-technical system. The tools only work when we understand the deeper human purpose behind them.
In this episode, we talk about the people who actually built Toyota's culture, what John learned from his two very different bosses — including Isao Yoshino, the subject of my book “Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn” — and what happens when we lose sight of the human purpose inside the tools we practice every day.

In the previous episode, John offered a powerful reframe on lean's impact — and what question we should really be asking as change leaders. If you haven't listened to episode 74 yet, hit pause and start there first — then come back to this one to pick up where we left off.

You'll Learn:
Inside stories of how Toyota's culture was built and the system builders behind it
What John learned from his very different bosses inside Toyota and how their styles shaped his own leadership
Whether you are a lean “mechanic” or “social worker” and what your answer reveals about your leadership
Why every lean tool is already socio-technical — kanban, standardized work, A3, andon — and what we lost when we introduced them as primarily technical
The concept of motainai — waste as a moral failure, not just a technical one — and why this matters for how you lead
ABOUT MY GUEST:
John Shook spent eleven years with Toyota in Japan and the U.S., where he helped transfer the Toyota Production System globally. He later served as President of the Lean Enterprise Institute and Chairman of the Lean Global Network.

John is the co-author of the award-winning books Learning to See and Managing to Learn, and wrote the foreword to my book Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn. As an industrial anthropologist, he brings a perspective that connects culture, systems, and practice to bridge deep thinking with real-world application.
IMPORTANT LINKS:
Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/75
Connect with John Shook: lean.org/about-lei/senior-advisors-staff/john-shook/ 
Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson 
Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter
Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com
Join us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/japantrip 
Purchase a copy of, “Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn,”: kbjanderson.com/learning-to-lead 
TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:
03:04 Why changing culture is harder than copying systems
04:05 John’s question that still drives him: Why Toyota?
05:10 How John found his way into Toyota and NUMMI
06:15 Why Toyota endured while other Japanese companies faded
07:10 Short-term leaders vs. long-term system builders
08:15 The crisis that shaped Toyota’s future direction
10:05 John’s experience learning from very different Toyota leaders
11:15 Why conflicting feedback accelerated John’s learning
12:10 Bringing your own thinking into the A3 process
13:15 Different cultures inside Toyota and how they shaped leadership
14:10 Mr. Cho’s powerful way of teaching through stories
16:10 Katie’s lion story and breaking the telling habit
17:15 Adapting your leadership approach to the situation
19:15 Reading both the technical and social sides of change
20:20 TPS as a way to expose weaknesses and accelerate growth
21:45 Are you a lean mechanic or a lean social worker?
22:50 Identifying your leadership bias and growth edge
24:05 Why process improvement and OD teams should work together
27:10 Scientific thinking, humanism, and ethics in Toyota leadership
28:55 Eliminating waste as more than a technical exercise
30:05 Mottainai and the deeper meaning of waste
32:25 Why lean tools were always socio-technical
33:40 Kanban, standardized work, and the human side of lean
35:10 The A3 as more than a problem-solving tool
37:35 The most common failure mode in lean transformations
38:30 When lean becomes the goal instead of the means
39:30 Why lean isn’t just for executives
40:35 Improving work at every level of the organization
41:40 Why empowerment without support falls apart
42:20 The Andon system as a model for real support
43:45 Where do you need to grow: technical or human?

Register for a chance to win a copy of Karina Mangu-Ward's book "Teams that Meet the Moment" : https://kbjanderson.com/giveaways/teams-that-meet-the-moment/
Learn more and apply for the November 2026 cohort of my Japan Leadership Experience: https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/

Register for a chance to win a copy of Karina Mangu-Ward's book "Teams that Meet the Moment" 
Learn more and apply for the November 2026 cohort of my Japan Leadership Experience: https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/

Has lean really failed?

That question sparked one of the most listened-to conversations in the history of this podcast — my two-part series with Jim Womack in episodes 37 and 38.

When I sat down with John Shook — one of the most influential thought leaders and practitioners in the global lean and continuous improvement community — we explored a different angle.
John's perspective isn't a rebuttal. It's a reframe. A counterpoint to the question itself.
John asks: what problem are we really trying to solve?
His answer unfolds across three episodes — the first ever three-part series on Chain of Learning. And I think it will change how you think about your own impact as a change leader.

You’ll Learn:
Why the question "how many lean enterprises have we created?" may be leading us in the wrong direction — and what we should ask instead
The difference between "command and control" and what John calls "command and abandon" — and which one you're more likely doing
Why the key question in problem-solving is not "is this accurate?" but "is this useful?"
How to recognize your span of influence and build systems at the right level that help people think, learn, and take ownership
Why purpose → work → capability is the right sequence — and why most leaders start in the wrong place
ABOUT MY GUEST:
John Shook spent eleven years with Toyota in Japan and the U.S., where he helped transfer the Toyota Production System globally. He later served as President of the Lean Enterprise Institute and Chairman of the Lean Global Network.

John is the co-author of the award-winning books Learning to See and Managing to Learn, and wrote the foreword to my book Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn. As an industrial anthropologist, he brings a perspective that connects culture, systems, and practice to bridge deep thinking with real-world application.
IMPORTANT LINKS:
Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/74
Connect with John Shook: lean.org/about-lei/senior-advisors-staff/john-shook/ 
Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson 
Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter
Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com
Join us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/japantrip 
Grab a copy of, “Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn,”: kbjanderson.com/learning-to-lead 
TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:
03:00 Why John Shook believes we may be asking the wrong question about lean
05:25 Why change leadership always starts with changing yourself
06:40 The tension between influencing others and trying to control them
08:15 What a people-centered learning culture actually looks like in practice
09:05 Why John avoids lean jargon and starts with the problem instead
10:00 The Toyota question that shaped John’s thinking: “What problem are you trying to solve?”
11:15 Why learning only matters when it’s grounded in the work
12:30 Toyota’s “attitude toward learning” and why it changes everything
15:05 Why leaders must create the environment for learning and problem-solving
16:00 How organizations drift into “big company disease”
17:05 Why purpose → work → capability is the sequence most leaders miss
18:15 The risk of starting culture change with leadership behaviors alone
19:20 Why focusing on the work reveals what’s really blocking change
21:00 Why John sees more “command and abandon” than command and control
23:20 Focusing on your span of influence instead of waiting for senior leaders
27:15 How every person at work already has “problem consciousness”
29:00 The surprising truth about who is most frustrated in organizations
32:15 Building systems at your level that create ownership and capability
33:20 Why modeling the behavior matters more than pushing harder
36:15 Why sustainable change starts with how you show up each day

Register for a chance to win a copy of Karina Mangu-Ward's book "Teams that Meet the Moment" : https://kbjanderson.com/giveaways/teams-that-meet-the-moment/
Learn more and apply for the November 2026 cohort of my Japan Leadership Experience: https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/