Chain of Learning: Leadership Strategies for Transforming Culture, Developing People, and Getting Results

Help and support. Two words we use almost interchangeably.

But do they mean the same thing? And does the distinction even matter?

It does. Because your help can be the very thing that keeps someone from developing their own competence and confidence.

You want people who are capable and confident to solve problems at every level, without needing you to do it for them. But the project gets done, or the problem gets solved, and the person still can't do it without you. And you find yourself unintentionally owning the responsibility of doing it all.

Providing support is an essential part of people-centered leadership. You meet them where they're at, and keep the ownership where it belongs.
You’ll Learn:
Why providing help and support are not the same thing
Why your intention to be helpful can still lead to overstepping ownership of others' thinking and problem-solving
How to assess what someone needs from you as a leader in the moment
Why the difference between helping and supporting isn't about time or effort, but where ownership resides
How asking a follow-up question, instead of giving your answer, can become one of your most powerful coaching practices for developing people
IMPORTANT LINKS:
Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/88
Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson
Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter
Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com
TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:
00:52 When your good intentions become unhelpful
03:35 How being the expert can take ownership away from others
04:45 The difference between providing help and support
05:55 Why ownership matters more than time or effort
07:20 When doing it yourself keeps your team dependent
08:05 Three responsibilities of leaders who develop people
09:15 When caring becomes carrying: The Doer Trap
11:45 Why productive struggle is essential for learning
12:55 When to let people struggle and when to step in
13:20 How AI can shortcut learning—or support deeper thinking
14:35 Why stepping in limits your leadership capacity
15:15 How to assess whether someone needs help or support
16:35 The power of asking instead of answering
17:15 The “Jedi mind trick” that helps people find their own answers
18:15 What providing support looks like in practice
20:05 One question to try in your next conversation

How do you build deeper human connection in your relationships so that you can more effectively lead change and help others?

That question sits at the heart of some of the most influential books in my work, including Helping and Humble Inquiry by Edgar Schein: how we help, not as the expert with all the answers, but by asking better questions as a leader and creating the conditions for other people to develop their own ideas.

Edgar’s work has profoundly shaped how I think about leadership, learning, and helping. And in the later years of his life, his son Peter Schein became an important partner in continuing to develop and evolve these ideas of humble leadership and organizational culture.
Peter spent 30 years in Silicon Valley in corporate strategy and development before partnering with his father to co-write seven books. He recently released the third edition of Humble Inquiry, continuing to bring these foundational ideas forward for how we lead, learn, and create change today.
In this conversation, Peter and I explore how to move beyond transactional relationships to build genuine personal ones. We get underneath the meaning of many of the words we use today—curiosity, vulnerability, and psychological safety—and why seeking clarity gets you further than seeking certainty.
You’ll Learn:
Why "don’t bring me a problem, bring me a solution" teaches people not to speak up
Why you're most vulnerable when you don't know what you're missing
How "Sharing the MIC" makes humble inquiry practical: Motivation, Intervention, Contribution
The difference between helping as the expert with the answer and helping as the process consultant who creates the conditions
Why going to see isn't the same as transparency
ABOUT MY GUEST:
Peter Schein is the co-founder of the Organizational Culture and Leadership Institute. He spent thirty years in Silicon Valley in strategy and corporate development at companies including Apple, Silicon Graphics, and Sun Microsystems, and studied anthropology at Stanford University.

Peter partnered with his father, Edgar Schein, to co-write seven books, including Humble Leadership, and has continued to evolve their work through new editions of Humble Inquiry and The Corporate Culture Survival Guide. Edgar Schein was Professor Emeritus at MIT's Sloan School of Management and is recognized as one of the founders of organizational psychology.
IMPORTANT LINKS:
Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/86 
Connect with Peter Schein on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/peteraschein 
Learn more about the Organizational Culture and Leadership Institute: scheinocli.org 
Read Helping, Humble Inquiry, and Humble Leadership: scheinocli.org/publications 
Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson 
Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter 
Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com
TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:
03:06 Transactional vs. relational leadership and why connection matters
08:10 Why efficiency without relationships limits effectiveness
12:19 When expertise gets in the way of seeing the bigger picture
16:24 Why clarity matters more than certainty
20:31 When curiosity, vulnerability, and psychological safety become buzzwords
22:08 Why you’re vulnerable to what you don’t know
24:36 What Humble Inquiry actually looks like in leadership
27:26 How Humble Inquiry builds both trust and better information
28:35 Why “bring me solutions, not problems” keeps people from speaking up
30:35 How to “Share the MIC” and make Humble Inquiry practical
36:21 Helping as the expert vs. helping as a process consultant
38:33 How AI is changing where leaders and consultants add value
44:03 Making invisible team dynamics visible
49:35 Why being open to what you don’t know changes how you lead
52:26 What going to Gemba teaches us about Humble Inquiry
54:29 Why transparency and openness aren’t the same thing

Enter for your chance to win a copy of "Thoughtload" by Liane Davey: http://chainoflearning.com/85
Giveaway ends October 9th at 11:45pm Pacific Time.
Your team isn't resisting change. They don't have room for it.
It's not just workload that's overwhelming us, it's what Liane Davey calls our "thoughtload": the invisible tax on our performance and presence.

Liane is an organizational psychologist who works with CEOs and executive teams leading organizational transformation. In her latest book she uncovers how complexity, decisions, and emotional weight are draining us, leaving us feeling like there's too much to do and no space left to think.

We bring home what's weighing on us at work, and what we're worried about comes to the next meeting with us. We end up half-present, consumed by what's going on inside, not what's in front of us.
Liane shares how to lighten the noise inside your head to focus your attention, work through what you're carrying emotionally, and get your energy back.
Urgency, constant change, and the pressure to deliver aren't going away. But thoughtload is something you can manage, before it turns into leadership burnout for you or your team.
You’ll Learn:
Why the person pushing back on your organizational change isn't a resistor, and what is actually going on inside their brain
Why we've become intolerant of iteration, and how to position a decision so that correcting course doesn't land as flip-flopping
How your team can be busy, productive, and still not moving toward the outcome
How a heavy thoughtload keeps you from having a hard conversation, and how avoiding productive conflict makes your load heavier
What it means to "metabolize your thoughtload", and why filling every walk and commute with input leaves no room to think
ABOUT MY GUEST:
Dr. Liane Davey is an organizational psychologist and New York Times bestselling author who advises executive teams on strategy, decision-making, and team dynamics. She is co-founder of the firm 3COze and the author of The Good Fight and Thoughtload. Her doctoral research on how team dynamics affect innovation has shaped three decades of her work with senior leaders.
IMPORTANT LINKS:
Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/85
Connect with Liane Davey: linkedin.com/in/lianedavey
Purchase a copy of Liane's book: thoughtload.com
Learn more about Liane: lianedavey.com
Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson
Subscribe to my newsletter: KBJAnderson.com/newsletter
Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com
Join us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/JapanTrip
TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:
03:00 Why it’s not the workload—it’s the thoughtload
06:00 How thoughtload undermines team performance
08:00 Why overwhelm shifts leaders from reflection to reaction
11:00 Three ways to manage your thoughtload
12:00 Why being productive doesn’t mean you’re effective
16:45 The problem with having too many priorities
19:00 How leaders can lighten their team’s thoughtload
20:45 Why your brain needs space to process, not more input
23:00 What change leaders miss about resistance
24:30 Why labeling people “change resistors” gets it wrong
29:30 How avoiding conflict makes your thoughtload heavier
32:30 Why managing thoughtload means saying no to good things
36:15 When changing direction is learning—not flip-flopping
37:25 What deserves to be in your thoughtload?

People-centered. Learning organization. Culture of continuous improvement. We use a lot of different words to describe what we are trying to create.

But do we actually mean the same thing? And if we all want it, what's stopping us from getting there? And what is the one thing that could have the biggest impact?

So I asked. And you answered.

Leaders and change practitioners around the world responded. There wasn't one shared definition or set of words for a people-centered learning culture. But the same essence was in almost every answer.

The pressures we're all working in are real, and they're not going away. Yet the biggest impact comes from something we can influence: our own leadership behavior. And that starts with us.

You’ll Learn:
Why "people-centered" and "learning" are intertwined concepts that support each other in creating a learning organization
How to describe what we're trying to build to leaders who never ask for a people-centered learning culture
Why "respect for people" means more than treating people well, and how it's fundamental to developing people and organizational success
How urgency, firefighting, and short-term pressure to deliver results exacerbate our pull toward doing rather than developing people
Why the environment is seen as the barrier, and leadership behavior is the lever for change
IMPORTANT LINKS:
Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/84 
Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson
Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter
Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com
Join us on the Japan Leadership Experience: KBJAnderson.com/JapanTrip 
TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:
02:03 What leaders actually want from their teams
04:31 Why urgency gets in the way of developing people
06:17 How ego and leader behavior limit ownership
08:22 When fear makes it harder to speak up and learn
10:37 The biggest lever for creating a people-centered culture
12:35 Why we can’t wait for the system to change
14:08 How caring pulls us into the Doer Trap
15:47 What “respect for people” really means
17:28 What people-centered leadership looks like in practice
18:07 How learning happens through the work
20:49 What people need to solve their own problems
22:35 Start with what you can influence

Overstepping ownership rarely looks like overstepping. It looks like moving things along.
You know how something could be improved, so you give your suggestion. Work gets done, progress is visible, but the person you were there to develop doesn't build the capability they need, and the improvement doesn't sustain.

Every change leader, manager, and executive does this at some point. And when we take on ownership of what isn't ours, we end up the bottleneck.
As a transformational change leader at Kaiser Permanente, Anna Pessah watches this play out every day with the internal consulting team she leads, and with the physician and operational leaders she supports.
We break down this challenge and share the practices to use instead. Leaders don't need to stop helping or teaching. It's about getting clear about what each person owns, and adjusting how you help based on what that leader needs in the moment.

When ownership sits in the right place, people grow, improvements hold, and you have the space to do what is actually yours to do.

You’ll Learn:
How to make ownership explicit from the start, by contracting up front and saying out loud which hat you're wearing, coach or consultant or teacher
Why leaders learn good coaching practices best by being coached, and how making your own practice visible lets others model it
Why the pull to step in gets stronger the more you care about the outcome
Why a new practice often swings too far one direction at first, and how to find the middle without abandoning it
When asking coaching questions stops being helpful, and how to be directive without taking over the thinking
ABOUT MY GUEST:
Anna Pessah leads the internal consulting team that oversees the operating system at the North Valley Service Area of Kaiser Permanente, where she coaches physician and operational leaders on strategy, management systems, and the behaviors that support a culture of improvement. She is an industrial engineer from the University of Michigan and an ICF-certified coach. Anna brings a blend of systems thinking, operational improvement, and leadership development to help leaders generate insight, turn goals into action, and build habits that stick.
IMPORTANT LINKS:
Full episode show notes: ChainOfLearning.com/83 
Connect with Anna Pessah: linkedin.com/in/anna-pessah 
Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson 
Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter 
Check out my website for resources and working together: KBJAnderson.com
TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:
03:16 Why change leaders struggle to keep ownership with leaders
05:22 When helping starts creating dependence
06:15 Building capability instead of becoming the bottleneck
07:12 Why doing more can make your job harder
09:23 Getting explicit about roles and ownership
11:25 Why new practices require reflection and adjustment
13:17 Making your leadership practices visible
16:03 How to give direction without taking over
22:16 What happens when leaders operate at the wrong level
24:05 The personal cost of staying in the weeds
25:30 Why helping can turn into overstepping
27:43 When coaching questions aren’t helpful
31:25 The power of listening—and leaving space
36:46 Why humility is essential to learning
38:18 Recognizing your own pull to control
39:06 Simple practices for keeping ownership where it belongs