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For the Life of the World / Yale Center for Faith & Culture

Podcast For the Life of the World / Yale Center for Faith & Culture
Miroslav Volf, Matthew Croasmun, Ryan McAnnally-Linz, Drew Collins, Evan Rosa
Seeking and living a life worthy of our humanity. Theological insight, cultural analysis, and practical guidance for personal and communal flourishing. Brought ...

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  • What the Devil: Christian Imagination, Morality, and Two-Step Devil / Jamie Quatro
    Mystics and prophets have reported receiving visions from the Divine for centuries—”Thus saith the Lord…”—Hildegard of Bingen, Teresa of Avila, Ignatius of Loyola, Catherine of Siena, or Julian of Norwich. The list goes on.But what would you think if you met a seer of visions in the present day? Maybe you have.What about a prophet whose visions came like a movie screen unfurled before him, the images grotesque and vivid, all in the unsuspecting backwoods setting of Lookout Mountain, deep in the south of Tennessee.Would you believe it? Would you believe him? The beauty of fiction allows the reader to join the author in asking: What if?That’s exactly what Jamie Quatro has allowed us to do in her newest work of literary fiction, Two-Step Devil.What if an earnest and wildly misunderstood Christian is left alone on Lookout Mountain? What if the receiver of visions makes art that reaches a girl who’s stuck in the darkest grip of a fraught world? What if the Devil really did sit in the corner of the kitchen, wearing a cowboy hat, and what if he got to tell his own side of the Biblical story?On today’s episode novelist Jamie Quatro joins Macie Bridge to share about her relationship to the theological exploration within her latest novel, Two-Step Devil; her experience of being a Christian and a writer, but not a “Christian Writer”; and how the trinity of main characters in the novel speak to and open up her own deepest concerns about the state of our country and the world we inhabit.Jamie Quatro is the New York Times Notable author of I Want to Show You More, and Fire Sermon. *Two-Step Devil* is her latest work and is the winner of the 2024 Willie Morris Award for Southern Writing, and it’s also been named a New York Times Editor's Choice, among other accolades. Jamie teaches in the Sewanee School of Letters MFA program.SPOILER ALERT! This episode contains substantial spoilers to the novel’s plot, so if you’d like to read it for yourself, first grab a copy from your local bookstore, then two-step on back over here to listen to this conversation!About Jamie QuatroJamie Quatro is the New York Times Notable author of I Want to Show You More, a finalist for the Los Angeles Times Art Seidenbaum Award and the National Book Critics Circle’s John Leonard Prize, and Fire Sermon, a Book of the Year for the Economist, San Francisco Chronicle, LitHub, Bloomberg, and the Times Literary Supplement. Her most recent novel, Two-Step Devil, is the winner of the 2024 Willie Morris Award for Southern Writing. It has also been named a New York Times Editor's Choice, a 2025 ALA Notable Book, and a Best Book of 2024 by the Paris Review and the Atlanta Journal Constitution. A new story collection is forthcoming from Grove Press.Quatro’s fiction has appeared or is forthcoming in The New Yorker, The Paris Review, Harper’s, the New York Review of Books, Ploughshares, and elsewhere. She is the recipient of fellowships from MacDowell, Yaddo, Bread Loaf, and La Maison Dora Maar in Ménerbes, France, where she will be in residence in 2025. Quatro holds an MA in English from the College of William and Mary and an MFA in fiction from the Bennington College Writing Seminars. She teaches in the Sewanee School of Letters MFA program, and lives with her family in Chattanooga, Tennessee.Show NotesGet your copy of Two-Step Devil by Jamie QuatroClick here to view the art that inspired Jamie Quatro’s Two-Step DevilProduction NotesThis podcast featured Jamie Quatro with Macie BridgeEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett & Emily BrookfieldA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give
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  • The Scandal of Giving and Forgiving / Miroslav Volf
    It’s easy to forget how utterly scandalous the concepts of grace and forgiveness are. Grace is an absolutely unmerited, undeserved benevolence. Forgiveness is an intentional miscarriage of retributive justice, ignoring of the wrong by a wrongdoer.In Miroslav Volf’s understanding, forgiveness “decouples the deed from the doer.”Today’s episode features some highlights from Miroslav’s personal reflections about each chapter of his book Free of Charge: Giving and Forgiving in a Culture Stripped of Grace, including his thoughts about one of the most painful moments in his family’s history, the death of his 5-year-old brother Daniel when Miroslav was just a small boy.Free of Charge was published in 2006, and we just released a 10-video curriculum series through faith.yale.edu/free-of-charge. It also includes a 48-page discussion guide with new material to help facilitate not just deeper reflection about giving and forgiving, but a viable, livable path toward these core Christian practices.This series is free for Yale Center for Faith & Culture email subscribers. So head over to faith.yale.edu/free-of-charge to sign up today.Production NotesThis podcast featured Miroslav VolfEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett, and Emily BrookfieldA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give
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  • Kendrick Lamar's Political Theology / Femi Olutade
    Super Bowl LIX was amazing, but not because of the football, or the commercials. It was the 13-minute half-time tour de force of political theology and protest art, brought to you by Kendrick Lamar. Acting like a parable to offer more to those who already get it, and to take away from those who don’t get it at all, the performance was so much more than a petty way to settle a rap beef.But what exactly was going on? Today’s episode is an introduction to the political theology of Kendrick Lamar. Evan Rosa welcomes Femi Olutade, arguably the living expert on the theology of Kendrick Lamar. A lifelong fan of hip hop and student of theology, he’s deeply familiar not just with music Kendrick made, but the influences that made Kendrick, as well as Christian scripture and moral theology. Femi has written incredibly nuanced theological musicological reflections about Kendrick Lamar’s 2017 album DAMN., which won the Pulitzer Prize for Music.Femi joined Dissect Podcast host Cole Cushna as lead writer for a 20-episode analysis of DAMN., offering incredible insight into the theological, moral, and political richness of Kendrick Lamar.About Femi OlutadeFemi Olutade is the lead writer for Season 5 of Dissect, an analysis of Kendrick Lamar’s Pulitzer Prize-winning album DAMN. He’s arguably the living expert on the theology of Kendrick Lamar. A lifelong fan of hip hop and student of theology, he’s deeply familiar not just with music Kendrick made, but the influences that made Kendrick, as well as Christian scripture and moral theology. Femi has written incredibly nuanced theological musicological reflections about Kendrick Lamar’s 2017 album DAMN., which won the Pulitzer Prize for Music.Femi joined host Cole Cushna as lead writer for a 20-episode analysis of DAMN., offering incredible insight into the theological, moral, and political richness of Kendrick Lamar.Show NotesFemi Olutade’s Theology of Kendrick LamarKendrick Lamar’s Super Bowl LIX Half-Time Show (Video)Kendrick Lamar’s Half-time Show Lyrics (Full)Season 5 of Dissect: Kendrick Lamar's DAMN.Kendrick Lamar’s Political Theology as a Diss Track to AmericaSuper Bowl LIX was amazing, but not because of the football, or the commercials. It was the 13 minute half-time tour de force that Kendrick Lamar offered the world.Uncle Sam introduces the show, the quote “Great American Game.” A playstation controller appears. Is the game football? Video game? Or some other game? Kendrick appears crouched on a car—dozens of red, white, and blue dancers emerge, evoking both the American flag which they eventually form, as well as the gang wars between bloods and crips—or as Kendrick says in Hood Politics, “Demo-crips” and “Re-blood-icans”And what ensues is an intricately choreographed set of layered meanings, allusions, hidden references and Easter eggs—not all of which have been noticed, not to mention explained or understood.You can find links to the performance and the lyrics in the show notes.Femi Olutade on the Theology of Kendrick LamarToday’s episode is an introduction to the political theology of Kendrick Lamar. And joining me is Femi Olutade, arguably the living expert on the theology of Kendrick Lamar. As a lifelong fan of hip hop, he’s deeply familiar not just with music Kendrick made, but the influences that made Kendrick. Femi has written incredibly nuanced theological musicological reflections about Kendrick Lamar’s 2017 album DAMN., which won the Pulitzer Prize for Music.And I became familiar with Femi’s work in 2021, while listening to a podcast called Dissect—which analyzes albums line by line, note by note. They cover mostly hip hop, but the season on Radiohead’s In Rainbows is also incredible. Femi joined host Cole Cushna to co-write a 20-episode analysis of DAMN., offering incredible insight into the theological, moral, and political richness of Kendrick Lamar, which repays so many replays. Forward, AND backward. Yes, you can play the album backwards and forwards like a mirror and they tell two different stories, one about wickedness and pride, and the other about weakness, love, and humility.If you want to jump to my conversation with Femi about Kendrick Lamar’s Political Theology, please do, just jump ahead a few minutes.Not Just a Diss Track to Drake, but a Diss Track to AmericaBut I wanted to offer a few preliminaries of my own to help with this most recent context of the Super Bowl halftime performance.Because almost immediately, it was interpreted as nothing more than one of the pettiest, egotistical, and overkill ways to settle a rap beef between Kendrick and another hip hop artist, Drake. Some fans celebrated this. Others found it at best irrelevant and confusing, and at worst an offensive waste of an opportunity to make a larger statement before an audience of 133 million viewers.In my humble opinion, both get it wrong. Kendrick Lamar simply does not work this way.If it was the biggest diss track of all time, it wasn’t aimed merely at Drake, but America. And if it was offensive, it was because of its moral clarity and force, striking a prophetic chord operating similar to a parable.Jesus and Kendrick on Prophecy and ParablesParables, according to Jesus, are meant to give more to those who already have, and take away from those who already have nothing (Matthew 13:13). Because, as the prophet Isaiah says, “seeing they do not perceive, and hearing they do not listen, nor do they understand” (Isaiah 6:9).At this point, it’s possible that you’re entirely confused, and if so, I’d invite you to hang with me and lean in. Watch it again, listen more closely. Because rap, according to Jay Z, is a lean-in genre. You can’t understand it without close examination, without contextual, bottom-up, historical appreciation, or without a willingness to be educated about what it’s like to be Black in America.But I guarantee you that in Kendrick Lamar’s outstanding choreographed prophetic theatre, there’s much more going on—”there’s levels to it”—to quote Lamar.You Picked the Right Time, but the Wrong GuyAnd if you want it clearly spelled out for you—a cleaner, smoother, tighter, more palatable, less subtle social commentary that can be abstracted from history, circumstance, and the genre of rap itself so that it can be rationally evaluated—well, you’re occupying the exact position Kendrick is critiquing, which he prophetically predicts in the very performance itself. As he warns us:The revolution 'bout to be televised You picked the right time, but the wrong guyStill, what was that?? First, it’s public performance art, so just let it land. Watch it again. Notice something new. Submit yourself to it. Let it change you.The Black American Experience in Hip Hop and Kendrick LamarAnd if you really want to understand it, you need to be open to the possibility that some social commentary can only be understood in light of certain lived experiences. In this case, at least the Black American experience. And then, rather than demanding that Kendrick explain it to you in your own vernacular, listen to what he’s already said. Lean in an listen to his whole body of work, learn his story, expertly rendered in jaw-dropping lyrical performance. Drive with him through his childhood streets of Compton on Good Kid M.A.A.D. City. Journey with him from caterpillar to butterfly on To Pimp a Butterfly, look in the mirror presented before you in the Pulitzer-prize winning DAMN., hear out his messy psyche laid bare in Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers, take a ride with him in GNX…In the days following Kendrick’s super bowl performance, J Kameron Carter, Professor of African American Studies, Comparative Literature, and Religion at the University of California at Irvine, called for a more in-depth study of the 13-minute performance, noting that:“[B]lack performance carries within it an interrogation of the question of country as the problem and question of US political theology and the legacy of Christian empire.”This episode isn’t meant to close any books or offer a full explanation of Kendrick’s performance, let alone his music, but just to lean in, and to quote Kendrick, “salute truth and the prophecy.”Production NotesThis podcast featured Femi OlutadeEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett & Emily BrookfieldA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give
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  • The Psychology of Disaster: The Impact of Calamity on Mental, Emotional, and Spiritual Health / Jamie Aten and Pam King
    Disaster preparedness is sort of an oxymoron. Disaster is the kind of indiscriminate calamity that only ever finds us ill-equipped to manage. And if you are truly prepared, you’ve probably averted disaster.There’s a big difference between the impact of disaster on physical, material life—and its outsized impact on mental, emotional, and spiritual life.Personal disasters like a terminal illness, natural disasters like the recent fires that razed southern Californian communities, the impact of endless, senseless wars … these all cause a pain and physical damage that can be mitigated or rebuilt. But the worst of these cases threaten to destroy the very meaning of our lives.No wonder disaster takes such a psychological and spiritual toll. There’s an urgent need to find or even make meaning from it. To somehow explain it, justify why God would allow it, and tell a grand story that makes sense from the senseless.These are difficult questions, and my guests today both have personal experience with disaster. Dr. Pam King is the Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller School of Psychology, and the Executive Director the Thrive Center. She’s an ordained Presbyterian minister, and she hosts a podcast on psychology and spirituality called With & For. Dr. Jamie Aten is a disaster psychologist and disaster ministry expert, helping others navigate mass, humanitarian, and personal disasters with scientific and spiritual insights. He is the Founder and Executive Director of the Humanitarian Disaster Institute Wheaton College, where he holds the Blanchard Chair of Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership. He is author of *A Walking Disaster: What Surviving Katrina and Cancer Taught Me about Faith and Resilience.*In this conversation, Pam King and Jamie Aten join Evan Rosa to discuss:Each of their personal encounters with disasters—both fire and cancerThe psychological study of disasterThe personal impact of disaster on mental, emotional, and spiritual healthThe difference between resilience and fortitudeAnd the theological and practical considerations for how to live through disastrous events.About Pam KingPam King is Executive Director the Thrive Center and is Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. She hosts the With & For podcast, and you can follow her @drpamking.About Jamie AtenJamie D. Aten is a disaster psychologist and disaster ministry expert. He helps others navigate mass, humanitarian, and personal disasters with scientific and spiritual insights. He is the Founder and Executive Director of the Humanitarian Disaster Institute and Disaster Ministry Conference and holds the Blanchard Chair of Humanitarian & Disaster Leadership at Wheaton College. And he’s the author of *A Walking Disaster: What Surviving Katrina and Cancer Taught Me about Faith and Resilience.*Show NotesHumanitarian Disaster InstituteSpiritual First AidJamie Aten’s A Walking Disaster: What Surviving Katrina and Cancer Taught Me about Faith and ResilienceThe Thrive Center at Fuller SeminaryPam King’s personal experience fighting fires in the Eaton Fire in January 20255,000 homes destroyed55 schools and houses of worship are gone“Neighborhoods are annihilated …”Jamie Aten offers an overview of the impact of disasters on humanity, and the human response1985: 400% increase in natural disasters globallyJapan 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunamiHaiti 2010 earthquakePhysical, emotional, spiritualInfrastructural impacts that set up disastersUSAID supportJamie Aten’s experience during Hurricane KatrinaPersonal disastersJamie Aten’s experience with colon cancer“Evacuation Impossible”Impact of disaster on personal sense of thrivingThriving vs survivingUnderstanding traumaCollective traumatic eventsThe historically Black multigenerational community in AltadenaWhat constitutes thriving?Thriving as adaptive growth: with and for othersSelf-care is not just me-care, but we-care.Trauma brain and the cognitive impacts of disasterThe psychological study of disaster: grapefruit vs beachballHumanitarian Disaster InstituteSpiritual First AidA rupture of meaning makingPlace and spirituality and the impact of disaster on sense of placeBethlehem pastor Munther Isaac’s “Christ in the Rubble”Finding meaning in both the restructuring or rebuilding, but also in the rubble itselfHope embodied in serviceEverything is a cognitive loadMiroslav Volf and Ryan McAnnally-Linz’s The Home of God: A Brief Story of EverythingPsychological and trauma-informed care”One of the things that we found was that when people received positive spiritual support, that they reported lower levels of trauma, lower levels of depression and lower levels of anxiety.”Bless CPRBLESS: Biological, Livelihood, Emotional, Social, Spiritual“What’s the most pressing need?”Spiritual healthSpirituality and our ultimate sources of meaningTranscendenceLament as a practice for dealing with disasterPrayer or sacred readingsMeaning making and suffering:  Elizabeth Hall (Biola University) and Crystal Park (University of Connecticut)Baton Rouge Flood 2016Navigating sufferingReligion in disaster mental healthFaith as a predictor for resilienceMeaning making outside of religionMr. Rogers: “Look for the helpers”Best disaster preparedness: “Get to know your neighbor.”“Proximity alone is not what it takes to become a neighbor.”Neighbors helping neighborsManaging burnout in helpers“Spiritual self-aid” instead of “self-care”Self-care is like surfing“God holding the fragmented pieces of me”“God’s love is with me.”Spiritual fortitude in personal and natural disastersProduction NotesThis podcast featured Jamie Aten and Pam KingEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett & Emily BrookfieldA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give
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  • Our One and Only Earth: Environmental Ethics, Climate Change, Biodiversity, and Consumption / Ryan Darr & Ryan McAnnally-Linz
    How should we treat our one and only home, Earth? What obligations do we have to other living or non-living things? How should we think about climate change and its denial? How does biodiversity and species extinction impact human beings? And how should we think about environmental justice, the rights of animals, and the ways we consume the natural world?In this episode, Ryan McAnnally-Linz welcomes Ryan Darr (Assistant Professor, Yale Divinity School) to reflect on some of the most pressing issues in environmental ethics and consider them through philosophical, ecological, and theological frameworks.Together they discuss:What and who matters in environmental ethics: Only humans? Only sentient animals? Every life form? The inorganic natural world?The significance and difference between global and individual scale of climate issuesThe ethics of climate change denialEnvironmental justice and moral obligations to the environment—the question of what we owe to animals and the rest of the natural worldThe importance of biodiversity and the impact of species loss and extinctionThe ethics of eating animalsThe problems with human consumption of the natural worldAnd the impact of cultivating a wider moral imagination of our ecological futureAbout Ryan DarrRyan Darr Ryan Darr is Assistant Professor of Religion, Ethics, and Environment at Yale Divinity School. His research interests include environmental ethics, multispecies justice, structural injustice, ethical theory, and the history of religious and philosophical ethics. He is currently writing a book that defends an account of environmental and multispecies justice as a framework for thinking ethically about the crisis of biodiversity loss and mass extinction. He is also developing an ongoing research project exploring the relationship between individual agency and responsibility and structural justice and injustice with a particular focus on environmental and climate issues.His first book, The Best Effect: Theology and the Origins of Consequentialism, was published by the University of Chicago Press in 2023. The book offers a new, robustly theological story of the origin of consequentialism, one of the most influential views in modern moral theory. It uses the new historical account to intervene in contemporary ethical debates about consequentialism and about how ethicists conceive of goods, ends, agency, and causality.Prior to joining the YDS faculty, Ryan held postdoctoral fellowships at the Princeton University Center for Human Values (2019-22) and the Yale Institute of Sacred Music (2022-24).Show NotesGet your copy of Ryan Darr’s The Best Effect: Theology and the Origins of ConsequentialismComplex ethical questions about climate changeEnmeshed in environmental systemsA crash course in environmental ethicsWhich entities should we be thinking about ethically?Are human beings the most important morally and ethically speaking?What about animals, plants, or other kinds of life?What about other species of animalsAnthropocentrism: Only humans matter.Sentientism: Only sentient animals matterBiocentrism: Every life form mattersCan we apply justice and rights to animals?The polar bear on melting ice was the poster child for climate change; but this was a mistake because the effects on human beings is massive.“All of us are affected.”“We’re all vulnerable to climate change. …. kidding themselves and need to think more about this.”Global southClimate negotiations: Who needs to lower emissions and how? And how do we adapt?Massive overwhelm at the scope of environmental problems: “Only massive changes can make a difference.” But “I have to change my life.”How should we navigate the scale issue?Don’t let large scale or small scale issues or changes eclipse the other.Political action is crucial“We need people willing to respond in the ways they can, where they are.”Climate change denial“There’s a lot of money flowing here.” Fossil fuel interests and others muddy the waters and create conflicts“If it’s the case that millions of lives are at stake … I don’t see how some doubtReasons why people might deny climate change“It’d be nice if climate change wasn’t real, but …”Environmental justice and injusticeToxicities released into the natural environmentConservation and biodiversity lossApproximately 8 million species on earthIt’s standard to lose a handful per million per yearGenerally, you’re supposed to get more species on earth, short of a mass extinction eventBut extinction rate is something like 100x to 1000x fasterDefaunation—reduction of fauna on earthMeasuring the biomass of various species (Humans make up 30% of the world’s biomass.)Changes linked to colonialism and global capitalismWhy would God have created such a diverse speciesThomas Aquinas on why God created a world full of biodiversity: to reflect God’s extensive perfection“On this view, the world is show lessWhat are the ethics ofExample: Wolves were intentionally eradicated in America, because “who wants a wolf in their neighborhood.”Justice-oriented “Rights” and what we owe to each other, versus non-justiceDo we have obligations to animals?Example: Kicking a Cat“The Incredulous Stare”Jainism and “ahiṃsā” (non-injury, no-harm, or non-violence toward all life forms, down to microbes)“I’m inclined to think that I have obligations to almost all animals.”At least “animals who are sentient”—desires, frustration of desires, pain, etc.Is it permissible to eat meat?Factory-farmed meat (effectively tormented)Animal life has become commodity—valuable solely because of its use and with no regard for their well-being.Consumers, Producers, and Wendell Berry: How should social roles relate to each other?“Any question about justice have to begin from concrete social positions.”Maintaining action and creativityPractical recommendation for action to align our lives with our values“I read fiction and short stories that tell stories of human beings in futures drastically affected by climate change as a way to open up my imagination to what’s possible.”Dystopian narratives: leading to a sense of futility and hopelessness.“I don’t think we know where anything is headed.”“Humans have lived through upheaval so many times, and have found ways. … ‘People kept on baking bread as the Roman Empire fell.’”Yale Divinity School class: “Eco-Futures”—imagining lives lived well in painful situationsIf not hope, a sense of determination to do what can be done with the time that we have.Kim Stanley Robinson's The Ministry for the Future: a technocratic novel about politics and policy solutionsShort fiction on Grist—Imagine 2200: Write the FutureMargaret Atwood, Everything ChangeProduction NotesThis podcast featured Ryan Darr and Ryan McAnnally-LinzEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett, and Emily BrookfieldA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give
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