We live in a world where our civilization and daily lives depend upon institutions, infrastructure, and technological substrates that are _complicated_ but not ...
Points, profits, and packed planes, with Gary Leff
Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Gary Leff, the author of "View from the Wing", to discuss the economic systems behind airlines and loyalty programs. They discuss how airlines manage to stay profitable despite razor-thin margins, the economics of frequent flyer programs, and why these programs often generate more value than the airlines themselves. The conversation explores why many irrational airline policies reflect deeper economic realities and competitive constraints that shape flying today.–Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/gary-leff-frequent-flier-programs/–Sponsor: VantaVanta automates security compliance and builds trust, helping companies streamline ISO, SOC 2, and AI framework certifications. Learn more at https://vanta.com/complex–Recommended in this episode:View From The Wing https://viewfromthewing.com/Bits About Money: How credit cards make money https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/how-credit-cards-make-money/–Twitter:@patio11@garyleff–Timestamps:(00:00) Intro(01:10) History of airline loyalty programs(04:36) The economics of airline loyalty programs(08:01) Parallels and differences with hotel loyalty programs(14:01) Tax implications and legal considerations(19:50) Sponsor: Vanta(21:08) Tax implications and legal considerations (part 2)(34:02) Credit card reward programs(46:56) The David Dao incident and its impact on airline policies(47:29) Airline compensation strategies and Delta’s unique approach(49:08) The economics of airline miles and accounting practices(53:15) Airline debt and the role of frequent flyer programs(55:21) The impact of airline policies on customer loyalty(01:08:11) The value of partner miles and airline alliances(01:13:11) Creative ways to earn miles and exploit promotions(01:20:05) The infamous coin promotion and other mileage hacks(01:30:39) Wrap
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1:31:27
Tax the dirt, with Lars Doucet & Greg Miller
Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Lars Doucet and Greg Miller, co-founders who have just launched the Center for Land Economics, to discuss improving property taxation in the US. They explore how shifting taxes from buildings to land could transform development patterns, why California's property tax caps coincide with its housing crisis, and how the fundamental trade-off between assessment accuracy and consistency creates winners and losers. The conversation also covers the posting-to-policy pipeline, their work developing open-source tools to improve assessment equity, and techniques citizens can use to influence their local assessment office. –Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/tax-the-dirt-with-lars-doucet-greg-miller/–Sponsors: Safebase Ready to save time and close deals faster? Inbound security reviews shouldn’t slow down your team or your sales cycle. Leading companies use SafeBase to eliminate up to 98% of inbound security questionnaires, automate workflows, and accelerate pipeline. Go to safebase.io/podcast –Recommended in this episode:Center for Land Economics: https://landeconomics.org/Game of Rent by Lars Doucet: https://gameofrent.com/ Progress & Poverty: https://progressandpoverty.substack.com/ Mass Appraisal for the Masses: https://progressandpoverty.substack.com/p/mass-appraisal-for-the-masses-the Lars Doucet on Complex Systems: https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/episodes/property-assessment-lars-doucet/Dave Kasten on Complex Systems: https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/episodes/tech-government-dave-kasten/ –Twitter:@patio11@larsiusprime–TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:45) Center for land economics(04:01) Property tax basics(05:31) Challenges in property valuation(10:22) Impact of Proposition 13 in California(12:28) Anti-market property tax policies(14:43) Housing crisis and land value(15:46) Sponsors: Safebase(17:17) Housing crisis and land value (Part 2)(27:49) Urban development incentives(29:17) Tokyo's urban planning success(39:23) The abundance movement in housing(40:07) Innovative housing policies(41:24) Government bureaucracy and policy making(49:56) Mass appraisals and property tax fairness(01:00:02) Technological advances in property assessment(01:06:16) Empowering local governments and citizens(01:16:02) Wrap
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1:17:07
A tale of two Americas in one $50K cash withdrawal
Patrick McKenzie (patio11) explains the standard procedure for large withdrawals in bank branches, with particular focus on the viral story published in The Cut about a woman who withdrew $50,000 cash from a bank and handed it to scammers. Certain minor details in the article set off a year-long investigation where he identified the exact physical location of the bank branch in question, researched the context for the transaction using public records, and obtained new details through FOIA requests. His investigation reveals an underlying narrative that accounts for what actually happened, and provides a worked example for fact-checking in journalism. –Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/two-americas-one-50k-withdrawal/–Sponsors: Safebase Ready to save time and close deals faster? Inbound security reviews shouldn’t slow down your team or your sales cycle. Leading companies use SafeBase to eliminate up to 98% of inbound security questionnaires, automate workflows, and accelerate pipeline. Go to safebase.io/podcast –Recommended in this episode:Two Americas, one bank, and $50,000 cash https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/two-americas-one-bank-branch/ The Cut, The Day I Put $50,000 in a Shoe Box and Handed It to a Stranger https://www.thecut.com/article/amazon-scam-call-ftc-arrest-warrants.htmlKelsey Piper on Complex Systems https://open.spotify.com/episode/33rHTZVowaq76tCTaKJfRBJim McKenzie on Complex Systems https://open.spotify.com/episode/6ocJirzGTStuf0K9ITM21X–Timestamps: (00:55) Suppose you ask a bank to withdraw $50,000 in cash(07:55) Style magazines sometimes publish hard-hitting journalism(12:36) Reaching out to Vox Media(17:09) Sources of doubt(17:55) Sponsor: Safebase(22:30) The physical reality of bank branches(25:53) In which we became acquainted with brisk walks across Brooklyn(34:42) New York’s Finest foil FOIL for a time
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41:13
AI, data centers, and power economics, with Azeem Azhar
Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Azeem Azhar, writer of the Exponential View newsletter, to discuss the massive data center buildout powering AI and its implications for our energy infrastructure. The conversation covers the physical limitations of modern datacenters, the challenges of electricity generation, the societal ripples from historical largescale infrastructure investments like railways and telecommunications, and the future of energy including solar, nuclear and geothermal power. Through their discussion, Patrick and Azeem explain why our mental models for both computing and energy systems need to be updated.–Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/ai-llm-data-center-power-economics/–Sponsors: Safebase | CheckReady to save time and close deals faster? Inbound security reviews shouldn’t slow down your team or your sales cycle. Leading companies use SafeBase to eliminate up to 98% of inbound security questionnaires, automate workflows, and accelerate pipeline. Go to safebase.io/podcast Check is the leading payroll infrastructure provider and pioneer of embedded payroll. Check makes it easy for any SaaS platform to build a payroll business, and already powers 60+ popular platforms. Head to checkhq.com/complex and tell them patio11 sent you.–Recommended in this episode:Azeem’s newsletter: https://www.exponentialview.co/ Azeem Azhar’s guest essay: The 19th-Century Technology That Threatens A.I. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/28/opinion/ai-electricity-power-plants.htmlElectric Twin: https://www.electrictwin.com/ Video of Elon Musk’s Colossus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw696JVSxJQ Complex Systems with Travis Dauwalter on the electrical grid: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5JY8e84sEXmHFlc8IR2kRb?si=35ymIC0UQ5SKdV8rrBcgIw Complex Systems with Austin Vernon on fracking: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0YDV1XyjUCM2RtuTcBGYH9?si=YshjUXPEQBiScNxrNaI-Gw Complex Systems with Casey Handmer on direct capture of CO2 to turn into hydrocarbon: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0GHegWgLSubYxvATmbWhQu?si=xNYBjn0ZTX2IT_pAZ5Ozsg –Twitter:@azeem@patio11–Timestamps:(00:00) Intro (00:27) The power economics of data centers(01:12) Historical infrastructure rollouts(04:58) The telecoms bubble (06:22) Unprecedented enterprise spend on AI capabilities(11:12) Let's have your LLM talk to my LLM(16:44) Is there a saturation point?(19:25) Sponsors: Safebase | Check(21:55) What’s in a data center?(24:52) The challenges of data centers(29:40) Geographical considerations for data centers(36:53) Energy consumption and future needs(40:48) Challenges in building transmission lines(41:35) The solar power learning curve(43:51) Small modular nuclear reactors(51:26) Geothermal energy and fracking(01:01:34) The future of AI and energy systems(01:12:57) Wrap
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1:13:53
You can’t retract the facts
In this episode, Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) responds to a recent request by a crypto unicorn founder / bank CEO to retract his essay Debanking (and debunking?). Come for the note about editorial standards and independence, stay for the diss track. –Full transcript available here: https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/editorial-standards-and-independence/–Sponsors: Safebase | CheckReady to save time and close deals faster? Inbound security reviews shouldn’t slow down your team or your sales cycle. Leading companies use SafeBase to eliminate up to 98% of inbound security questionnaires, automate workflows, and accelerate pipeline. Go to safebase.io/podcast Check is the leading payroll infrastructure provider and pioneer of embedded payroll. Check makes it easy for any SaaS platform to build a payroll business, and already powers 60+ popular platforms. Head to checkhq.com/complex and tell them patio11 sent you.–Recommended in this episode:Debanking (and debunking?): https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/debanking-and-debunking/CEO: Retract your debanking article? Me: No. https://www.kalzumeus.com/2025/02/10/retraction-request-denied/Geekiest rap single in history https://suno.com/song/c5ac7441-4a0b-4e5e-9c85-480e3ba63fc1 –Twitter:@patio11–Timestamps:(00:00) Intro(03:04) Musical interlude(04:56) Return to commentary(06:35) You can’t please everyone(08:06) The bar for retraction is high(10:07) Our review of the retraction request(10:37) “A few areas were incorrect or misleading”(16:12) “Lots of omission of key facts”(18:57) “Missing the point about what we mean by debunking”(20:40) Sponsors: Safebase | Check(25:00) Our response to McCauley’s testimony(28:24) McCauley’s concluding remarks and our response(30:21) Bank CEOs do not often ask writers for retractions(34:20) Some context regarding custodial banks(40:50) Returning to our regularly scheduled programming
We live in a world where our civilization and daily lives depend upon institutions, infrastructure, and technological substrates that are _complicated_ but not _unknowable_. Join Patrick McKenzie (patio11) as he discusses how decisions, technology, culture, and incentives shape our finance, technology, government, and more, with the people who built (and build) those Complex Systems.
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